Almost like a Brooks? Part 3: Long-term Review of the Velo Orange Model 1 Saddle

A leather saddle—at least in theory—should last a long time, and therefore I wanted to provide an follow-up to the two previous review posts about the Velo Orange Model 1 saddle. I've now ridden the saddle for about 2.5 years and 11 000 km. It has seen all kinds of use, from all-year everyday riding around town, multi-day loaded tours, and single-day rides of up to 200km. So has my previous, positive assessment changed since the July 2012 review?

By and large: no. The main points still hold true.

In summer of 2012 the saddle was already well broken in, but it has continued to slightly change its shape. The picture on the left shows the saddle in 2012, the one on the right in its current state.

2012: Broken-in

2014: Moar broken-in

The asymmetry and “hammockiness” definitely have gotten more pronounced (even though the camera angle does distort things a bit). I haven't touched the tension screw yet and so far have no plans of doing so. The leather is still far away from the rails, the saddle is comfortable, and I'm an adherent of the school of thought that believes once you start turning the tension screw, you'll have to keep going until the saddle is dead.

The saddle rails are still going strong and I have no reason to expect them to fail any time soon. But obviously one never knows ...
The leather has aged very nicely. I try to be conscientious about covering the saddle in the rain but must admit that it has gotten wet more than once. And, ahem, I also sweat a lot in the parts that touch the saddle. After the initial treatment with Proofide I haven't done much to care for the leather, and this doesn't seem to have had any bad effects.

There are a few spots, especially near the rivets and in the place where the saddle sometimes scrapes against the wall or other objects, where the leather looks worn and I'll apply some Proofide soon. Other than that the saddle actually looks better than when it was new. The surface texture and crinkliness I pointed out in earlier reviews has turned into a mostly smooth surface, as you can see in the pictures.

2014: Pretty shiny

2012: Still a little dull

It is still not quite as shiny as my Brooks Swift and B17 Imperial, but the looks are definitely closer now than they were initially. The hammered rivets, made from stainless steel, haven't changed their appearance at all and are still flush with the leather. A minor advantage over my B17 Imperial is that the saddle is completely quiet, whereas the Brooks had phases of squeaking and clicking.

What about the arguably most important characteristic of a saddle, comfort? Once again, there are no essential changes to report. The saddle continues to be comfortable, as evidenced by my ability to do 200km day rides or multi-day tours in relative comfort. As I've remarked previously, when riding without padded bike shorts it does make a difference which underwear I'm wearing. As long as the seams are in the right spot I can do up to 60km without issues; anything above that is better done in bike shorts. The center ridge may have gotten slightly more pronounced but still doesn't bother me at all.

So to conclude, I do not regret buying the VO instead of a Brooks at all. I don't have anything negative to say about the saddle. If aesthetics are very high on your priority list, then maybe you should go for a Brooks instead. And if the center ridge negatively affects your comfort, you might want to consider going for a non-hammock saddle. Other than that you can't go wrong with the VO Model 1. Oh, there is the little problem that Velo Orange currently doesn't sell the saddle;but they have said that they “may bring it back eventually” and maybe this review will help with that.

Almost like a Brooks? Part Two: Review of Velo Orange Model 1 Saddle

Edit July 2014: Please also read part three of my review.

A couple of months ago, I posted my first impressions of the Velo Orange Model 1 and Model 3 saddles. In the meantime, I have ridden the Model 1 for over 2500 km now on rides ranging from my 5km commute to 10 hour, 160 km days on a tour from Montreal to Toronto. The Model 3 hasn't seen that kind of mileage yet and therefore I will only give an extensive perspective on the Model 1 for now.

Break-in period

Asymmetrical break-in

The break-in period of a saddle can vary widely, and the Model 1 was definitely on the lower end. Similarly to my Brooks Swift, the saddle started showing signs of breaking in right after my first 120 km ride: The leather got a little softer and you could see little dents forming where my sit bones contact the saddle. These dents have gotten bigger over time and now one can clearly see the characteristic asymmetry that's due to my scoliosis. There hasn't been any flaring of the saddle's sides and I don't expect that to happen any time soon. One thing that differentiates the Model 1 as well as the Swift from my B17 Imperial is the ridge that is beginning to form on the centerline of the saddle. I only noticed it after reading accounts of people reshaping their saddles -- with weird methods like soaking it in water! -- because of this ridge. Because of the cut-out no ridge can form on the B17 Imperial, but I must say the ridges do not bother me at all. We'll see if that's going to change should they get more prominent.

Leather quality

In her review of the Gyes-produced saddles, the author of Lovely Bike described the material of the saddles as "cardboardy." This particular term doesn't resonate with me as a good description of the material, but compared to Brooks saddles there is a noticeable difference. Both my (now broken) B17 and the Brooks Swift have completely smooth surfaces, whereas the VO's leather has a fine pattern. In addition,  Functionally, this does not make a difference: all three saddles allow to easily slide around on them. Aesthetically I have a preference for the Brooks look -- but aesthetics are low on my list of criteria for choosing a saddle. The thickness of the leather is about the same as on my Brooks saddles: between 4.5 and 5.5mm (this is difficult to measure, though, and the thickness varies on different parts of the saddle).The sides of the saddle are chamfered, just like with the narrower Brooks models.

Slightly crinkly leather near the sit bone dents

Rails

One reason for buying the VO saddle was that I hoped its rails would be less prone to breaking than that of my B17. Brooks rails have a diameter of about 6.8mm (I'm assuming that's 17/64 inches), whereas the VO has 7mm rails. A difference of 0.2 mm (or 3%) does not sound like much and I have no idea how much of an difference it makes for longevity. The rails are chrome plated which some have claimed is not only environmentally problematic but also not good for strenght. I don't have the expertise to evaluate these claims.
Another aspect of Brooks saddles frequently criticized is the limited range for adjusting the saddles fore-aft position. My Swift offers about 70mm of adjustment, compared to 80mm on the VO.

Lots of room for adjustment

Rivets

The looks of the Model 1's rivets are right in between my B17 and the Swift: The B17 sported the small diameter (8.75mm) nickel-plated steel rivets and the Swift has the nice, big hammered copper rivets with 13mm diameter. The Model 1 rivets have a diameter of 12mm, are hammered and made from stainless steel (according to a webshop selling other Gyes saddles).

Comfort

Comfort for most is probably the most important factor in choosing a saddle. At the same time it is the most difficult one to describe and also highly dependent on the rider. Personally, I am very satisfied with the comfort of the Model 1: On my tour from Montreal to Toronto I rode it on several consecutive 150km days without any issues. In commuter mode, I have noticed that the saddle is a bit more sensitive to the choice of underwear: with the B17 Imperial this was not an issue and I could easily do 60km rides in street clothes. With the Model 1, on the other hand, it sometimes happens that my clothes have a seam in the wrong spot, causing discomfort on longer rides around town. I suspect that this is mostly due to the narrower shape of the saddle, and that I would have similar issues with the Brooks Swift if I ever rode on it in everyday clothes.

Conclusion

My ultimate verdict will very much depend on how long the VO saddle will make it. If it'll last longer than my B17 I would fully recommend the saddle, if it lasts the same amount of time I'd say: go for the Model 1 unless aesthetics are high on your agenda. VO appears to have regular 60 dollar sales of the saddle and at that price Brooks doesn't seem like a great deal.

Edit July 2014: Please also read part three of my review.

Almost like a Brooks? First Impression of the Velo Orange Leather Saddles Model 1 and Model 3

Update July 2012: Please also read my recent review of the Model 1.
 
After my recent Brooks mishap I decided to try something new. Velo Orange, one of the brands that sells leather saddles made by Taiwanese company Gyes, had a sale on two of their models, their "Model 3" being a copy of the Brooks B17 touring saddle, and "Model 1" a copy of the Brook Team Professional, which is somewhere in between a touring and a road racing saddle. It would be hard not to compare the VO offerings with their Brooks counterparts, and since I have a good deal of experience with Brooks products, that's what I'll do.

Velo Orange Model 1 (left) and Model 3 (right)

First, let's talk about cost. Shipping to Canada was 17 Dollars and unfortunately I also got hit with sales tax and processing fees (it's pretty unpredictable when you have to pay sales tax and when you don't). So the overall cost for both saddles was 60 + 65 + 17 + 25 USD, coming out to 83.50 per saddle. On Amazon.com, a real B17 currently sells for 107 USD and a Team Pro starts at 135 USD, both including shipping to the US. With some research it might be possible to get them for slightly less (e.g. buying from a European webshop), but the Velo Orange saddles are definitely still going to be cheaper, even at their regular price of 85 and 90 dollars.

"Aged" leather of the Model 3. Not the binding in the middle of the saddle

On first view, the saddles look pretty similar to their Brooks inspiration, but there are a number of differences. For the Model 3, the most obvious one is the leather itself: whereas the regular Brooks features smooth leather, the VO saddle's surface resembles more that of the Brooks "Aged" models. The "aged" leather is supposed to break in more quickly--but consequently will also stretch and wear more rapidly. VO doesn't say anything in particular about the Model 3's leather and the leather still feels pretty stiff and hard. The Model 1, on the other hand, has a smooth surface that looks a little more dull than a real Brooks. But I'm suspecting that might change after the application of Proofide and some polishing/riding.

Model 1. A little dull.

From below, both saddles look quite different from a Brooks: instead of leather you see some kind of textile layered over the leather's surface. I guess this is for protecting the saddles from road spray, something that I don't have to care about because of my fenders. Another obvious difference between the Model 3 and a B17 is that the former is bound with two holes in the middle of the saddle. This prevents the sides of the saddle from flaring and it will also make the saddle a bit harder (depending on how tightly you bind it). Compared to a standard B17, Model 3's rivets are bigger. I'm not sure what they're made out of but it's not the copper of the more expensive Brooks saddles. Finally, in contrast to the Team Pro, Model 1 has bag loops, a feature that is pretty important to me and that made me buy a Swallow instead of the Team Pro for my road bike. 

Here you can see the textile underlayer

Underside of the Model 1

One less obvious difference are the saddle rails. I've complained about the sub-standard strength of Brooks rails (somewhere in the 6.6 to 6.7mm range) and fortunately the VO saddles feature wider rails. My calipers are out of battery at the moment, but it looks like the rails are at least 7mm wide. This will hopefully prevent the rails from breaking--but might also make the ride slightly harsher. Another frequent criticism of Brooks saddles is their limited fore-aft adjustability. Because Brooks saddles were developed in the age of slacker seat tube angles and haven't changed since then, some people have problems getting the saddle as far back as they would like to. I haven't measured the rails yet, but VO says theirs offer 10mm more space. (If you want even more range you should have a look at Selle AnAtomica saddles).

Model 1 next to a Brooks Swallow

Another less obvious difference is weight: On my kitchen scale, the Model 1 came in at 541g (claimed weight 520g) and the Model 5 was 646g (vs 665g claimed). This makes a tie between Model 1 and a Team Pro (claimed weight 520g), but quite a difference between Model 3 and the claimed 520g of a B17.

I think this is all I can say for now, but updates will follow once the saddles are in use.
Update July 2012: Extensive review of the Model 1